The founder of the Mount Jab Church of Mars wants to pray to Satan on a high school 50 yd line

[thewayne]

I do so love irony.

The Supreme Court said a high school football coach could freely exercise his religion immediately after a game, when he has a captive audience, and pray to Christ. This guy wants to lead a Satanic prayer, I'm not quite sure what that is, at the 50 yard line - and will allow people plenty of time to leave. The comments to the article are great!

What is sauce for the goose is also sauce for the gander. Ramen! He's much like the people who run the Church of Satan, flipping political hypocrisy back on its head. More of this needs to be done. I really would like to see him challenged and it taken to the Supreme Court and their noses to be rubbed into it, but they would probably refuse to hear it and just remand it back to the lower level.

https://www.comicsands.com/florida-activist-lead-satanic-prayer-2657650939.html

Comments

[mtbc]

I too revel in this aspect of the Satanists, we could do with not passively enabling revisionism suggesting that the US was meant to be a Christian nation!

[thewayne]

Most definitely.

[marahmarie]

+1000

[thewayne]

I'm not sure which is worse, trying to eliminate the church/state barrier, or so many people convinced that the USA absolutely should be a Christian Nation, and they so much go hand in hand. There's an old joke that worked best when Dubya was President.  George is asleep in bed and the phone rings.  It's God.  God says, "George, I have some news.  I've decided that I am going to make the United States a Christian nation."  George says "That's great!  That's amazing!  We'll make it a holiday with prayer, and feasting, and we'll pass that..." God interrupts and says "Now George, just hold on a sec.  First I should let you know that I'm calling from Salt Lake City."

[marahmarie]

Haha LDS ftw, sez God. Riiiiight.

I'm not sure which is worse, trying to eliminate the church/state barrier, or so many people convinced that the USA absolutely should be a Christian Nation

Both?

(If my back was against a wall with a gun to my head then the former is quite provably worse. You can't change how people think but until how they think becomes law arguably it doesn't much matter.)

They don't think the US should be a Christian nation because they're oh so religious, either, not at all (see: any and all references to TurboJesus for examples). They think it should be a Christian nation to further white patriarchal control of our society and of the nation. That's just one of several means by which they intend to seize and/or continue dominance.

[disneydream06]

Go Church of Satan. :p
I totally agree that if one religion can do it, so can the others. :)
Hugs, Jon

[rain_gryphon]

I'd argue that while he has the right to pray anywhere that he can legally be, to do so on the high school's football field without an invitation would probably be tresspass.

[thewayne]

He is asking for permission.  But if he's denied permission, then he deserves an explanation as to why the other football coach gets permission and he doesn't.

[rain_gryphon]

Is he also a football coach? Affiliated in any way with the school? If not, then I don't think the school owes him any explanation, so long as they're not welcoming other unaffiliated people to come pray.

[thewayne]

Valid point.

[motodraconis]

But the court ruling does not specify that you only gain the right to pray if you are already an employee... you have the right to pray anywhere, at any time.

"Respect for religious expressions is indispensable to life in a free and diverse Republic—whether those expressions take place in a sanctuary or on a field, and whether they manifest through the spoken word or a bowed head."

The guy is asking permission to pray at the end of the match as people are leaving, he has already attended the match, so he is not trespassing and no one is forced to stay and witness or participate (unlike the coach, who is obliging people to participate.) Technically, if you read the court ruling, he doesn't need to ask for permission, but he is doing it because he expects to be refused and thus can expose the hypocrisy.

[rain_gryphon]

Everyone has the right to pray as they wish, but not to trespass. Buying a ticket to watch a football game lets you into the grandstands, hot dog shack, restrooms, etc. It generally doesn't give you the right to stand on the field. If he wanted to pray in the grandstand, he'd be entirely within his rights. The coach is entitled to stand on the field - he could hardly do his job otherwise. And like the satanist, he's allowed to pray as he wishes, but not to trespass. And while I confess that I didn't read the judgement, I don't think he was obliging anyone to pray along with him.

[thewayne]

I'm honestly curious if he had a public address microphone and was broadcasting his prayer through the stadium like the opening National Anthem.  We have some access to Lexis/Nexis at work, I should see how much access we have and what I can find, if I think to do it.

[moonhare]

I saw no problem in the court’s decision. But I’m finding myself increasingly outside the majority of (opposing) opinions these days.

I’m only here for the beer. Politics are undermining that :o)

[motodraconis]

The "problem" is if they actually mean what they say with their ruling or not.

"Respect for religious expressions is indispensable to life in a free and diverse Republic—whether those expressions take place in a sanctuary or on a field, and whether they manifest through the spoken word or a bowed head."

So... if they refuse the blokie permission to hold his Satanic prayers, that is the problem.

Personally, I think it is disingenuous, if not offensive to lead prayers to a captive audience as this coach is doing. If I have come to see a match, I did not sign up for a dose of religion too, I came for the game. But if people insist on inflicting it on people, then that needs to be upheld for all religions. Let's have a call to Allah before the game, a sacrifice to Vishnu, an oath for Odin. Sorry... you came here to watch a match? First we must pay homage to Lugh the Warrior god! Wait, you don't worship any of these deities? Non-Christians have to sit through the Christian prayers, so everyone has to get an unsolicited dose now. Land of the Free blah blah.

[moonhare]

Refusing the satanic prayers could be a problem, and if challenged it would be interesting to see how that played out in the courts. I would hope Gorsuch would be consistent in his observations.

Perhaps the schools could hold a First Amendment Post Game Show, allowing all faiths a chance to compete? No prayer left behind! Charge a bit to see this and it might bolster the under-funded sports programs.

[kathmandu]

"I will now lead an invocation to Bel-Shamharoth the Eater of Souls..."

[motodraconis]

I can't remember if I have posted about this already, but The Satanic Temple have also set up an Abortion Ritual.
Obviously it is not "a Satanic Abortion Ritual" but a very cunning opportunity and campaign to hit the courts and fight back within the fucked up laws.

[thewayne]

They've had this going for some time to enshrine it in their religion and use it to fight for rights.  Yeah, they're pretty smart cookies there.

[suchasnack]

I call upon thee, oh great Cthulhu... XD I really love the way the Church of Satan goes around trolling conservatives, it gives me joy :')

[thewayne]

++Good!

[silveradept]

I wouldn't be surprised if the challenges to such a case claim that it's not a sincerely held religious belief, or that the person is taking the piss and it's political, or some other thing that wouldn't end up actually as a case of Free Exercise like the one with the football coach.

What would cause more havoc would be if, say, there was an Eid or a Sabbath ritual that needed to be done as close to sundown as possible and therefore happened immediately after the game. At that point, unless they really do want to say with their entire chest that Jews or Muslims don't count and TurboJesus is the only allowed religion, then there's a bind to be had.

[thewayne]

There have been court cases in the past re tests of religiosity, I think it might be hard to dismiss it regarding whether it is a sincerely held belief as it could open up the football coach to a bible quiz which he would probably fail.  Since these people pick and choose what verses they follow and don't follow the whole new testament, much less the whole bible, you can't pin them down on exactly what they believe, much less consistent viewpoints.

[silveradept]

Fair point, but I was thinking of it more as "it's 'obvious' to any observer that Satanists and those who pray to Satan are jokers and piss-takers because they're making fun of our serious religious beliefs and doing this as a stunt." Other Courts I might have expected to say "Sucks to be you, were have to treat this like it's serious because there's a valid point here." This one I would expect to say "We agree that anyone claiming to be a religion that's not TurboJesus is obviously a political stunt with no religious meaning at all, go away and let us play with our TurboJesus dolls with the sparking lightning hands."

[thewayne]

I don't have time to dig into it right now as I need to get to bed, but what I want to look up is what do the law and courts recognize as a legal religion.  Does the Church of Satan (tm)(c)(etc) exist as a recognized non-profit religion?  Likewise, do the Pastafarians/FSMs?  That would make it harder for the courts to shoo them out.  Now, this particular case, the guy filing it is not CoS, he wants to pray to Satan.  I'd say he is 'CoS adjacent.  I don't know if he has an actual church or is just claiming he has a church.

[silveradept]

I think those may end up as separate questions. Without doing a similar deep dive, I'm pretty sure there's precedent about whether or not you have to have or being to a church (or church-like entity) to have a religious belief, and that the answer there is no. Like, during the "neopaganism is trending" period right around the turn of the millennium, there were several court cases fought about whether it was acceptable to wear religious symbols at school (or rather, whether the witches could do the same thing the Christians were doing) and those eventually said that yes, someone could wear a pentacle as a religious symbol because people were allowed to wear crucifixes as religious symbols.

A lawyer could say better, but I don't think the bar for "religious belief" is very high to get over in the precedent. To be consistent with the ruling, the school should allow the prayer, but they won't, and they'll handle it in a way that prevents someone from having a statement or an official refusal to bring suit over. Given how much the Court seems to be interested in getting rid of the Establishment Clause by claiming it violates the Free Exercise Clause, I'm pretty sure the Court would dismiss a suit without providing in opinion so that we can't pin the majority down on what they believe is a real religion versus anything not Christianity.

Well ...

[ysabetwordsmith]

Christians have forgotten that the last time they wanted to pray at captive nonconsenting audiences, they got slammed with Satanic, Pagan, Secular Humanist, etc. prayers until they gave up. Have fun, folks, the broad side of the cow is waiting to be shot at.