I have GOT to vent about the price of college text books

[thewayne]

ALGEBRA HAS NOT FUNDAMENTALLY FUCKING CHANGED IN A VERY LONG TIME!

SO WHY ARE THE BLOODY BOOKS FOR A REMEDIAL CLASS OVER $100?!


I took a class in the Fall of '08, my carpal tunnel problem decided to make my life hell, and I had to drop the class. I'd like to re-take the class. But, of course, now they're using a different book and it'll cost me something like $130 for a used copy, assuming they have any.

Which is about what I paid for the fucking book in '08.

On top of that, YOU CAN'T BUY THE BOOK USED ONLINE AT HALF.COM OR OTHER RESOURCES! Why? Because there's a 20 page supplement in the back written by NMSU teachers, making it an NMSU edition.

Bastards.


Last week I came across an article about Scott McNealy, the former head of the former computer hardware and software corporation known as Sun (gobbled up by Oracle). He's fed up also and is starting a foundation to develop open source/Creative Commons versions of college textbooks.

GO, SCOTT! I LOVE YOU! I WILL BEAR YOU MANY STRONG MAN CHILDS! (a line specially for the slash fans that may be lurking amongst you, sorry, but it's a joke and I'm straight)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/technology/01ping.html

http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/08/02/222200/Sun-Founders-Push-For-Open-Source-Education

Man, I really hope he succeeds. It just really pisses me off that these books are so expensive for subject matter that should have been refined to the point of perfection, but they're far from perfect!


Reading the comments on Slashdot, I came across a link to an article written by the amazing physicist Richard Feynman. He served on the California board for textbook review and selection. The problem is, he actually read, cover-to-cover, the math books he was supposed to review. He didn't meet with the publishers or attend their presentations, he didn't go to dinners with them, he didn't accept their presents. And he found that all of the math books that he reviewed were uniformly crap. He also learned that they were overpriced because the publishers usually did not have to bid competitively against each other.

One of the most beautiful parts was regarding a set of three books. Feynman didn't review the third because he didn't receive a copy to evaluate. He said the other two were fine, so he assumed the third would be OK. Six of the ten reviewers had reviewed the third book. It turns out that the book had not been completed by the deadline, so the publisher sent blank pages bound in the book's cover. Blank books. Six people reviewed a blank book with good marks.

http://www.textbookleague.org/103feyn.htm


Yet another comment led me to a South African project called Free High School Science Texts. They have grades 10-12 free books on chemistry, physics, and mathematics in LaTeX format.

http://www.fhsst.org/


The basic problem, as outlined at the end of the Feynman page, is that school boards are totally in the pockets of publishers and seem to care less that the students are getting financially raped every semester. A good computer book, which is frequently outdated in 2-4 years, usually doesn't cost more than $60 or so. That's half the cost of a remedial algebra book. That's 2/3rds the cost of an introduction to nutrition book.

Some fields change rapidly. They revise information in astronomy it seems daily. BUT THE FOUNDATIONS DON'T CHANGE RAPIDLY. I can understand upper level course books being expensive, lower level books SHOULD NOT. They're exploiting a market because so many people don't go past an Associates degree.


It just makes me sick.

[end rant]


On a totally different note: man, I wish I could have studied under Feynman. He died in '88, I didn't learn about him until after his death. The dude was absolutely brilliant, and sounds like he was tremendously funny.

Comments

[beeyochkitty.livejournal.com]

fuck, dude, don't get me started ... I don't even know why I *have* to take algebra to be a medical transcriptionist, either. I need to take basic English again, too, since apparently the class I took in 1982 isn't good enough any more.

Of course, books for required classes are going to be way more than non-required ones, too.

I remember when Regan was in office, cutting student loans, saying "everyone's parents are paying for their school, they're just using the loan money for Spring Break." Apparently, textbook publishers believe that 'everyone's parents' don't mind going broke to pay for the books, too.

My mom's retired, I don't think she's up to it.

Ugh.

[thewayne.livejournal.com]

Here they have a series of tests that you take when you enroll to see what, if any, remedial classes you need. I don't have a big problem with that as high schools aren't exactly top-notch any more. I think it's good in that if you earn an AA, you'll at least be pretty functional. What I disagree with are the math requirements. For certain professions, yes, you need advanced math. For a lot of computer work you don't need it. I've been doing database work for 25 years and I've never used anything more than basic statistics.

And I've never done Spring Break, at least the way that it is frequently portrayed.

[moiraj.livejournal.com]

I join you in your fury regarding text books. It seems like every year there is a new edition which must be bought. A friend of mine went through two editions of the same text and found the differences minor. Certainly not enough to warrant another edition. I'm kind of disgusted that so much regarding higher education is such a money grab. (Personal ire. During the graduation from law school, every single speaker spoke of students giving back to the school, financially. Every single one. As most of us worry about paying off student loans, could we not be spared financial consideration on the day we're supposed to be celebrating?)

[thewayne.livejournal.com]

I'm on the 40 year plan personally, started taking college courses when I was in high school back in '78. A few years ago I decided to go ahead and file for an Associates in General Studies, basically saying I have a tonne of credits that don't make a degree (I have more than a BA's worth of creds). I got it so I can say on an app that I have a degree if they're just asking for basic info.

And now the uni is asking me to join the alumni groups and buy the membership card and attend the homecoming game and drink the koolaid.

No thanks.

My wife had it easy: her dad paid for her BA and because of a shortage of physicists, gov't and uni paid for her PhD. She was out housing and books and such, but didn't have to pay for the actual classes.

It's an amazing, self-perpetuating scam.

(and I don't normally use profanity regularly, but there are times....)

[deborak]

Why not just post a "I want this book" ad on your local Craiglist (however that works, I don't use it). Someone probably has it to sell.

[thewayne.livejournal.com]

That's a thought. There's no city listing for Alamogordo, but there is for Las Cruces (main campus), which might use the same book. I'll check in to it. I'm thinking about starting a web site, NMSU_Used_Books.com.

One thing really irritates me about the NMSU bookstore methodology. When I was in Phoenix, I'd go in to the campus bookstore, browse the aisles, look up my courses, and find my own books. Here, you tell them what course you're taking and they go through the aisles. Sort of a walk-up window thing. I can't imagine they have a big problem with shoplifting, but I really don't know what's going on with that. But I would find books unrelated to what I was taking and frequently buy some of them, particularly in English Lit classes.

Then again, I'm weird.

[hafoc.livejournal.com]

Back when I was in college we always had to have the latest edition of the textbook. Previous editions were not, officially, acceptable. In many cases the textbook had been written by the professor who taught the class, so he received royalties on it.

And then there's that whole thing about "distribution requirements," where in order to get a degree in, say, structural engineering, you have to take courses in art history, literature, and social "sciences."

This was for your own good. You had to take huge numbers of classes on things you had no use for and no interest in so you'd be a well-rounded, well-educated citizen when you finally did graduate from college. The fact that it doubled the number of classes you needed to take, and doubled the amount of money the Screwniversity could squeeze out of you, had nothing to do with the decision, I'm sure.

Not that I'm saying college education is a scam, y'unnerstand. I'd never say that. Oh no. Like hell I wouldn't.

[thewayne.livejournal.com]

I don't mind a broader, well-rounded education, I think it's a good thing. Personally, I think public speaking and presentation courses should be mandatory for most degrees including IT. At NMSU you have to take two courses called Viewing A Wider World, which are upper level general studies from other colleges, and that's useful, but the availability of those classes is pretty limited.

What's funny about books by profs is that not only do they write them, frequently they self-publish. I've had to buy a couple of those. Talk about printing money!

[silveradept]

Mm, yes, the textbook "version" scam, the one that makes you pay full price for the textbook and then can only sell it back for perhaps a fifth to a tenth of what you paid for it, for which they will mark it up again to about the same price, slap a "used" sticker on it, and force some other schmuck to buy it with. This is why I at least tried to get into courses where I would actually want the books after I was done with the classes.

You should totally be able to buy your textbooks for the same price as a regular book, at least.

[thewayne.livejournal.com]

NMSU sold their bookstore operations to Barnes & Noble a couple of years back. I was really hoping that the books that I need would be available for the Nook, no such luck. I'd actually buy one if they were.

Maybe some day.

[silveradept]

Perhaps some day. For now, though, you're stuck in the absolute hell that is textbooks. Of course, there's library reserves, if you are willing to go through the hassle of having a book for only a couple hours at a time and not being able to leave the library with it to study it at home.

[thedragonweaver.livejournal.com]

I think the best publishing methods for textbooks these days is to PDF. You still have the editing and page setups, but you lose the cost of printing and binding, and updates are comparatively easy.

Not that they'd make them cheaper, just that if I were to ever write a college textbook I'd do it that way and price it so that students would bless me forever.